Pre-tribbers, a little explanation?

“But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.” (Mark 13:13)

“Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.” (13:20)
“But in those days, after that tribulation…He will send forth the angels and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.” (13:27)
 At the coming of the Son of Man with power, after the tribulation, that’s when he will gather his elect. How do we reconcile a pre-tribulation rapture with this? It seems quite difficult to me.

Amillenialism

After a some research and hearing a symposium of pre-, post- and amillenialistic opinions (hosted by John Piper), I’m leaning toward amillenialism. This will surely come as a shock to the Liberty folk. It seems a more unified interpretation that best captures the weight of the impending return of Christ. And I agree with the heavily symbolic interpretation of Revelation 20, based upon, among other things, a sort of parallelism with Genesis 1-2.

A clean slate

God’s promise to Noah means that the earth will never again be destroyed by water. However, there is coming another destruction by fire.

…and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. …But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. (2 Peter 3:5-7, 10-13)

This second destruction is the one spoken of in Revelation. Allow me to cite some references from Blueletterbible.com’s Greek and Hebrew lexicons.

The Greek word “burned up and dissolved” also translated “melted” used in 2 Peter is lyo, which means:
To loosen, undo, dissolve, anything bound, tied, or compacted together
c) to annul, subvert
d) to do away with, to deprive of authority, whether by precept or act
f) to loose what is compacted or built together, to break up, demolish, destroy
g) to dissolve something coherent into parts, to destroy
h) metaph., to overthrow, to do away with
The word parerchomai meaning “pass away” is also used.
And Katakaiō, which means “burned up and consumed by fire.”

I can’t tell how figurative or literal scripture is here. I don’t know if matter will be erased and remade, or if God will just purge all evil from the earth, as you say. However, either way, the feeling behind “lyo” “parerchomai” and “katakaio” is “totally clean slate.” In fact, lyo is where we get the word “lye” which is the active ingredient in soap – a basic cleaning agent. In Noah’s time, earth remained, and mankind remained, despite massive catastrophe; in the end times, there is no remnant.

“And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold I am making all things new.” Revelation 21:5

Whether the “new heavens and new earth” are physically the same ones is not essential, because scripture says they will be utterly, completely, and practically new.

For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. Romans 8:20-21

The thing I would disagree with is that this earth reaches perfection apart from the drastic work of God recalibrating everything. To say that “creation is on an upward track” and “just give it enough time and we’ll reach utopia” is humanistic. No, creation is groaning, for only the return of Christ will bring peace to the earth. So, Joel, if we both have our hope fixed solely Him, then we believe the same thing! Just as God is the author and perfecter of our faith (Hebrews 12:2), he is both the author and perfecter of his creation. What do you think about this?

The most important part of what the new heaven and earth will be like is Revelation 21:3:

“Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself with be among them.”

The real crux is that, for all intents and purposes, the earth and heavens are new, and furthermore, that they are really united together, because God and man are no longer separate, but dwell together. And what his heaven, but the very presence of God?

Post-tribulation return of Christ?

Doesn’t it seem contrary to Christ’s methods for him to remove his bride before the greatest trial and pain, which would best serve to purify and beautify her? As it is written, “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great.” (Matthew 5:11)

That’s subjective. Here’s some objective material that spurred me to think along these lines.

In speaking to the disciples in Matthew 24, Christ says, “For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short…

“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect…

“But immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light…and He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.”